Text only | Text with Images

Mafia Scene - Mafia I & II Game Fan Site

Modders Corner => Mafia Scene Modders => Andrashi's Mods => Topic started by: Andrashi on April 15, 2012, 09:21:00 AM

Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 15, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Dear Mafia II fans,


 




altough I don't have THAT much free time, still there are a few ideas I would like to try. And I think Your opinions on these ideas would be most welcome feedback.




Two realism mods should discussed in this thread, both having connection with gunplay. See video in spoiler.


 


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">

TwoRealismMods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49sM0EesMcI:10pulxmm)


</div>

 


 




LIMITED INVENTORY




The idea is so far very strict. Vito can pick and hide only ONE handgun-type weapon, it is referred as "sidearm". Another handgun can be picked and used, but it has to be in hands and is discarded if player tries to holster it. If Vito has a "sidearm" in hands and tries to pick up another handgun, the newly picked handgun replaces the previous as a "sidedarm".


 




Hiding a rifle-type weapon is not possible, Vito can only carry one rifle-type and only in hands.




Summary of Vito's inventory with this mod: one handgun which can be holstered + one other weapon in hands (be it small gun or rifle).




Future hypotetical iterations may include various limits based on 3 Vito's outfit types (outfits without jacket, outfits with jacket, long coats)


 


 




HIT REACTIONS




Vito performs one universal hit reaction when hit by a gunfire or explosion. Multiple reactions are maybe possible, but so far I am glad it works at least somehow (//wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy.png)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">.




Hit reaction forces Vito to stop aiming, slows him down for a moment, disturbs weapon reloading process (gun is not reloaded and player has to again initiate reload) and forces Vito out of cover.


 




When Vito's health drops below certain threshold, each additional damage makes Vito drop currently held weapon and enter "low health critical mode".




In low health critical mode, Vito uses injury animset (which slows his movement), cannot operate guns, cannot climb obstacles and generally is very, very vulnerable. Low health critical mode fades away over time and Vito returns to normal mode (all possibilities permitted).


 




Purpose of a "low health critical mode" is to add realistic touch and to discourage players from rushing enemies head on. With "low health critical mode" and hit reactions mod active, at least slow health regeneration is REQUIRED, otherwise the game is annoying and unplayable (personally tested).


 


 


 




Well, let the discussion begin. What are your ideas, what would you like to see in regards to these two gamedesign changes?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 15, 2012, 09:37:03 AM
Oh my god that is great man!Finally something i like a lot.I didnt like the idea of having 8 weapons under the jacket and the thing that you cant throw them away.Very nice man.You must finish this mod it would be so much more fun to play mafia 2 again with this system.




Also maybe you could add new feature,when you are under cover and than you show up to fire,Vito does it really fast.It would be great if he does that slower that would be more realistic too.Or removing slow motion from the fist combat.




They should have more people like you in 2k(maybe there are none  <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue.png" alt="(//tongue.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">  ).


 




Also you might edit the copsystem.Because when you  cant holster a rifle you basically cant get on the streets with it.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 15, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Hang on ive got an idea.Remember in missions you cant sprint in the locations.So there must be a script which disables it.So how about this: you can holster 1 rifle just like in the old Mafia but when you holster it,it disables you to sprint.




Gangsters holstered tommygun under the coat all the time.Dont know if its possible but it would be more realistic to holster the weapon only when you have a long coat or such thing.There may be a condition for that.The coat on Vito is a model after all.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 16, 2012, 07:48:39 AM
Alright Samo, your ideas sound valid. Let's adjust the inventory system design:


 




There are four major types of outfit recognized in regards to the inventory system:




[ul]




Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 16, 2012, 02:07:17 PM
I think its way better now than it used to be and the cloth classes are well thought too.If you can arrange this its going to be really great.Now player must think what clothes should he take before action which sounds great.


 




Mafia 2 really has a lot of things which needs to be set to look realistic.


 




Maybe the mod could also affect the cops.Like when you kill them from behind stealthy you wont get wanted.Because when you for example want to rubb a shop and the cop is jaunting around the streets its necesarry to kill him.




It would be realistic when there are not witnesses but i dont think that this can be arranged.




But ive got one idea on mind how to make something simmillar to this -




My idea is this




Civils wont get you wanted so quick in real life after all and in the 50s duple not.Maybe there could be some sort of a hidden timer which will be setted on when you kill a shop keeper or a cop.Usually there are always people on the streets so it is realistic.For example you have 10 minutes to get dressed different before the cops will get you wanted.When you change clothes the timer will be setted off.


 




One question now.Is this mod going to include and affect the system of aforementioned Melee weapons too?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: eXistenZ34 on April 17, 2012, 05:43:25 AM
Hi Andrashi




like me you do not have much free time,




but you did a very good work, I love this realistic side.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 17, 2012, 06:09:12 AM
Samo, I see you would like to see several changes in a police system. Me too and it will be another project, but please so far let's stay on topic of this thread.


 




At least for now it looks like we reached a consensus regarding outfits and how they should affect player's inventory. As designed now, it looks like coated outfits are the best to wear all the time. But I don't want a player to steal a coated outfit at the beginning of the game and be OK with it till the end. That would make the whole idea of tactic a bit pointless.


 




So, let's mix realism and game logic. What if selected outfit affects player based on the weather? Of course this should work only outside and be disabled when player enters some interier. General idea is:


 




Summer Day




[ul]




Summer Day Rain




[ul]




Summer Night




[ul]




Winter Day




[ul]




Winter Day Snow




[ul]




Winter Night




[ul]




Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 17, 2012, 03:35:53 PM
Right


 




About the weather.this is good idea man.So player cant just take a coat everytime because he gets another disabling.


 




On the other hand in summer player cant take a rifle weapon type with him without another restriction.




How about we take a little detail to the rifle weapon types if you know what i mean.Grease gun must be treated different than a rifle or a shotgun for example.Grease gun is a small weapon.How about we will allow just this weapon to holster in the jacket.And edit the recoil and the number of clips.




You know it is realistic cuz its a small weapon,smaller than a tommygun for example.You should make this mod realistic but you shouldnt limit player as much as possible in this if you get my point.


 




Btw on the video that you have posted before i saw that you can edit and change the walk animation cycle when player gets hit which is good."coat - permanent heavy dizziness and health regen disabled","jacket - permanent light dizziness (light drunk effect)"-It may be more realistic and less annoying if you could manage to slower or change the walk animation cycle and edit Vitos jumping and sprinting skills.Maybe when its summer and wearing a jacket would just limit these and coat would cause a light drunk effect too.That would be a lot more realistic.


 




What do you think about it?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 19, 2012, 08:45:05 AM
Alrighty, here we go with another interation. I looked into weapon lengths (wikipedia). Let's see:


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">



 


 


 




Beretta 38A




Ãâà 94.6 cm




37.2 in


 


 




Thompson 1928




Ãâà 85.0 cm




33.5 in


 


 




Thompson M1A1




Ãâà 81.0 cm




32.0 in


 


 




MP40 (stock folded)




Ãâà 63.0 cm




24.8 in


 


 




GreaseGun (stock folded)




Ãâà 57.9 cm




22.8 in


 


 




Remington 870




128.0 cm




50.5 in


 


 




M1 Garand




110.0 cm




43.5 in


 


 




Mauser 98k




111.0 cm




43.7 in


 


 


 




</div>

 




You are right, MP40 and Grease gun are noticably smaller than the rest of two-handed guns and could be easily hidden in a jacket-type clothing. So let's add an exception just for these two long guns, that in case of jacket type clothing they can be stored as a "pseudo short weapon" in the inventory, occupying short weapon slot and inducing movement limiting as you are suggesting.


 




I am yet to see if I can affect speed of movement (speed of walking, speed of running). If I can, then I would change restricting conditions on clothes and use the speed of movement as a limiters.


 




Also I remembered that there are much more weather presets than just those used in a freeride. So it would be wise do distinguish just a few remarkable weathers and place all ingame weathers into these categories.


 




Overall check No#1 of the limited inventory design


 




[ul]





If player has MP40/GreaseGun holstered in the inventory and has a non-long weapon in hands, then sprinting and obstacle climbing are disabled.

If player has MP40/GreaseGun holstered in the inventory and has a long weapon in hands, then sprinting, running and obstacle climbing are disabled (player forced to walk movment).





If player has a long weapon holstered in the inventory and has another long weapon in hands, then sprinting and obstacle climbing are disabled.




Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: zahar999 on April 19, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
Andrashi


 




I can not understand




for example




Freeride in a large selection of weather (25 species from eXistenZ34)




in the game even more different weather




how it will affect the player's health?




and if I play for any character (not Vito) in a game or Freeride




how it will affect the change of arms?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Mike Bruski on April 19, 2012, 10:51:19 PM
WOW!  :woohoo:


 




I always say that too when you do your simulation modifications they're done so F$@#in' well!


 




Thus far, it's already better than the ROTH mod, only 2 parts missing ( wich I think are very hard to implement ) wich is...


 




-Bullets discarded upon reloading a non-empty a magazine.


 




-Magazines and shell casings to remain on the floor, if you had that, then WOWZZEERRSS!   <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/smile.png" alt="(//smile.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 20, 2012, 11:36:35 AM
QuoteRemember and bear in mind that weather restrictions are only SEMI-REALISTIC. Goal of weather restrictions is to make player wear all outfits through the game, not only coat one.

 




Yeh i get your point.Just that light drunk effect on jacket seemed exaggerated to me.On the other side player can take a jacket at night and during the day he could take the nojacket ones but the weather in Mafia is not natural and doesnt change during the day so i dont know if it is right to do that on the jacket.Only Existenz freeride can handle the weather changes while playing.


 




That Overall check No#1 seems good.


 




About the animations.Ive got one idea on mind how to do that.Somewhere on the net ive watched the 3ds Max animation settings and it includes the setting of the loops and so on.And if you could import it from Mafia to Max it theoretically could be done.You think that the subscript of the mafia files could be edited so Max can read it?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 20, 2012, 07:14:43 PM
zahar999




These realism ideas are not intended for a freeride mod. I don't want to create another freeride mod. Existenz is the one who is doing freeride mod. These ideas will be used to make the gameplay in the story more realistic.


 




Mike Bruski & CrAzY3AGL3




So far RotH mod is better because RotH mod is out while this current "project" is so far nothing more than just a bunch of concepts.


 




Magazines and shell casings to remain on the floor is maybe doable. Well not exatly "remain forever", but for example disappear in five/ten minutes. However it will require digging in particle files, which is a neighbour of "Mafia II file city" I am not regularly visiting because local residents are quite confusing and not easy to understand. Such a change will most certainly cause an extra performance stress, but we are talking about PC version of Mafia II, not Xbox360/PS3.


 




Samo




Yes, drunk efect on jacket-type clothing was too much. Regarding weathers - there are lots of weather presets used throughout the story. In the design summary I used six general weathers just to give a glimpse of weather restrictions system. The idea is to customize weather vs clothing restrictions specifically for each mission. That way restrictions can reflect actual mission weather quite closely.


 




Regarding animation importing, I have not deciphered animation data format and I have no intentions to do it because of its complexity. My apologies, but that is something beyond me <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy.png" alt="(//anime.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">.


 




QUIZ ENDED, winner is Zahar999




Here is a small video showing ammunition loss when reloading clip/drum fed weapons. Just as it should be in a "realistic" game.


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">

The_video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je9RjKmdCaA:2kw50tvj)


</div>

 
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Cole Phelps on April 20, 2012, 07:59:55 PM
I don't get it - are you sure it is proper video ?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: zahar999 on April 20, 2012, 08:15:15 PM
Quotezahar999

These realism ideas are not intended for a freeride mod. I don't want to create another freeride mod. Existenz is the one who is doing freeride mod. These ideas will be used to make the gameplay in the story more realistic.





it I understand



<hr class="bbcode_rule" />





I was interested in




15 chapters in the game ~ 30-50 types of weather







QuoteRegarding weathers - there are lots of weather presets used throughout the story.

In the design summary I used six general weathers just to give a glimpse of weather restrictions system.




The idea is to customize weather vs clothing restrictions specifically for each mission.




That way restrictions can reflect actual mission weather quite closely.





in the game a lot of different weather




how it will affect the player's health?




and if I play for any character (not Vito) in a game




how it will affect the change of arms?


 




on video




dumped ammunition in the clip will not be returned to the player
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 20, 2012, 09:31:49 PM
Zahar999 guessed it right. Karma increased.




"Ammunition loss when reloading" concept is a sheer luck. There is a LUA function




InventoryHowMuchAmmoCanAdd(weapon_id, max_ammo_to_add)




It returns how much ammo can be added till the inventory of the weapon is full. That means when Vito has a colt 1911 with 48 rounds in the inventory, this function will return 1. If Vito has 40 rounds in the inventory, it returns 9. And the deal-breaking part is that it counts ONLY with ammunition stored in the inventory, ammo stored in current clip is not counted!


 




Well Mike, here you are. Amunition loss when reloading clip/drum-fed weapons.


 




Zahar999




Modified clothing is planned to be in the story mode, not in a freeride. Modified clothing will have effect only on Vito, since Vito is the main character in the story mode. In the story mode, each mission has its unique weather. Some missions even contain changes in weather between mission checkpoints. The idea is to set weather restrictions specifically for each mission to reflect weather conditions.


 




General idea behind limited inventory is to make the game look more realistic and weather restrictions are made to force the player choose not only coat-type clothes all the time, but also other outfits.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Mike Bruski on April 20, 2012, 09:47:42 PM
That is awesome that you've already made it where the ammo clip removes the remaining bullets upon reload.


 




Concerning the magazines and bullet casings remaining on ground, even SR3 has bullets and magazines on the ground. Even all the HitMan games have the same, there is NO reason why 2K made it where the bullets go through floor, NONE. Should not really effect performance, unless you run the game on ultra low and are still lagging around 10-30FPS.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: zahar999 on April 20, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
Andrashi Thank you!


 




and another




I understand that the main idea of ??mod - it is realistic




but I have long been interested in the question(for myself)




may be obtained through the Lua team




features such as the "trainer"




rate of fire




power of fire




Shoot without reloading




You know those Lua commands and you can tell them to me?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Samo on April 21, 2012, 06:04:03 AM
Cole Phelps




As you may have noticed when Andrashi started to fire a Tommygun and he reloaded while there was still ammo and he lost them you see.


 




Andrashi


 




About the anims it was just an idea no need to take it seriously.




Btw i know its too much for ya now but there is one thing about mafia 2 which is really unrealistic when talking about guns and action.




You know when you kill somebody and you shoot him the blood is no longer spilling out of him.I guess the collision of the blood is being remowed while he dies cuz the bullets goes through him when he lies on the floor or making hes last "dead" anim.Can you make this not happening?I guess 2k did it because of the low  HW demand.




THX
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Mike Bruski on April 22, 2012, 12:53:22 AM
@CrAzY3AGL3, I agree with you entirely, reason for the upset with 2k over the casings and magazines. I'd be perfectly happy, if when you set PhysX on, it remains on ground, it annoys me that everything works and looks fantastic, but the bullets don't.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 22, 2012, 09:41:35 PM
zahar999




Unfortunately, none of your requests can be done through LUA commands as far as I know. All of them are doable only through trainers.


 




Also I maybe finally understand what you want to know. The clothes-realism mod is intended for Vito only. If the model is switched to non-Vito one, glitches will occur. It could be coded for all possible models in the game, but I don't think it is neccessary.


 




Samo




Some tests were done regarding dead bodies. Unfortunately, dead bodies completely lose interaction with particles, only character-character and character-environment interaction remain. However, maybe it will be possible to bypass somehow. To make the game think the character is both dead and alive (SetDemigod, messing with ".health" etc). So far please consider your request as impossible to achieve. My apologies.


 




Mike & CrAzY3AGL3




Guys, looks like 2KCzech played this trick well and all players around the world took the bait <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy.png" alt="(//anime.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">.




Casing is so far a bit mystery for me, probably it is a particle, so finding it and altering it s lifetime property could solve this riddle.


 




But regarding magazines and drums, it is not possible to leave them on ground. And that is because if they were to be left on ground, Vito would not have a magazine/drum model to load the weapon with <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy.png" alt="(//anime.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">. Seriously, this is one of the best April fools I have ever seen. Basically, almost everybody here assumed that magazines/drums FALL THROUGH floor. The reality is that magazine/drum is a part of the weapon. So when Vito throws it away, it falls down and looks like it "falls" through the foor, while in fact it gets teleported back the Vito's hand, so he has a magazine/drum 3D model to reload the weapon with! Probably done in order to save memory space.


 




Well played, 2K Czech.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Cole Phelps on April 23, 2012, 07:30:03 AM
Andrashi


 




What are these restrictions which you posted earlier ?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: zahar999 on April 23, 2012, 08:02:55 AM
QuoteUnfortunately, none of your requests can be done through LUA commands as far as I know. All of them are doable only through trainers.



too bad







QuoteIf the model is switched to non-Vito one, glitches will occur.



I was interested in this




now it is clear



<hr class="bbcode_rule" />





I tried your "Reminiscence of the hype"




but I did not like the camera




returns to shooting




weapons sights and ....


 




I really liked the fight




that the enemy's hard to beat




You can tell where I can make changes on their own for a fight?


 




thank you
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Mike Bruski on April 24, 2012, 02:16:41 AM
Now that is crazy, the clip does not even drop out of hand, that is one hell of a fool, LOL. Maybe when we can crack open the 3D files etc, we can make it happen like Mafia I.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Andrashi on April 26, 2012, 04:57:16 AM
QuoteAndrashi

What are these restrictions which you posted earlier ?



 




I am trying to give Mafia II a touch of realistic approach to the game. And limited inventory is one of all those small changes which will ultimately add to the feeling of realism.




However, Vito can wear an array of different clothes. And it would be strange why simple shirt with trousers can store as much weaponry in the limited inventory as a long coat. So in the idea is that different type of clothing gives Vito different options how much weapons he can have in the inventory.


 




Finally, if that was all regarding limited inventory, then player would steal coat-type clothing from the first clothes shop and would play through the entire game with it, which wouls kind of defy the intended touch of realism (who wears coat when there is summer and 35 ̡̉C outside?). So weather restrictions are introduced to give the player various disadvantages if he decides to wear an outfit which is inapproppriate to the weather of the selected mission. Of course if the outfit is chosen approppriately to the weather, no extra restrictions are applied.


 


 




zahar999




I am not surprised you didn't like the camera in the RotH mod, almost nobody appreciates it  <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue.png" alt="(//tongue.gif)" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">  .




Regarding fight changes, there is an XML file named "HumanFight" or something like that. It is in tables.sds. It stores settings for close combat. Close combat is a state machine. If you figure the structure, you can add more states. That is how new possiblities in close combat were aded in the RotH mod.


 




If you talk about A.I. (they block more and counterattack more often), then again in the tables.sds there is a file called civilian.xml. That file contains settings for melee A.I.


 




I hope this helps you. If I had time, I would have updated modders's section, add various files and meaning of values stored inside. However, I curently don't have time. My apologies.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: Cole Phelps on April 26, 2012, 11:13:21 AM
Quote
  • General weather restrictions




  • Winter day
     - no restrictions




  • Winter day snow
     - no restrictions




  • Winter night
     - no restrictions




  • Winter night snow
     - no restrictions




  • Summer day
     - health regeneration disabled and "drunk effect" present




  • Summer day rain
     - no restrictions




  • Summer night
     - health regeneration slowed to one quarter




  • Summer night rain
     - no restrictions


 




Are you going to add new weather forecast, Andrashi ?


 




One more question - will this mod only in FR or in every mode ? :cheer:
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: zahar999 on April 26, 2012, 11:27:53 AM
Andrashi


 




Thank you!




will look




I found "/config/animengine/ver0070/human_nodes/human_fight"




but I did not understand the "civilian"




there is such a "/config/AI/brains/ai_brain_civilian"




there is such a "/config/AI/closecombat/civilian"




where should I look?


 




and you have restored the health of a long




and the image on the screen in the fog




it is very prevents play


 




I like that you can meet Marty




He says "Hello, Mr. Scaletta"




but he can fight with Vito




how do you do it?
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: vitoandolini on May 29, 2012, 02:53:54 PM
That's a great mod idea, I love that way of realistic intense gameplay !


 




I thought about the big guns carry problem mentioned before, and maybe the solution, if it's doable, it's to add the feature to stock them into the car trunk. This way we can be stealthy without wearing winter coats.


 




And sorry to ask this, but, for players who loves this mod but want it to play without health regeneration (yes it's madness), after the weapon is dropped in critical mode, can you let enable the use of weapons ? (maybe you can release a version with health regeneration, and another without)




I know I'm asking much, but that would be great !
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: bishop on July 03, 2012, 05:59:41 PM
hi Andrashi




i need help please.




i would like change the name, clip size and max ammo of all weapons in mafia 2 but i don't know where and what file to modify...


 




ps :s orry for my bad english i'm french
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: jaca37 on July 03, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
It's in tables.sds I guess. Use Rick's Tools to browse tables.sds and edit particular tables.
Title: Realism mod concepts
Post by: bishop on July 03, 2012, 09:26:02 PM
ok it's in xml files of tables.sds?




you know the name of the file?
Text only | Text with Images