Dear Mafia II fans,


 




altough I don't have THAT much free time, still there are a few ideas I would like to try. And I think Your opinions on these ideas would be most welcome feedback.




Two realism mods should discussed in this thread, both having connection with gunplay. See video in spoiler.


 


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">

TwoRealismMods


</div>

 


 




LIMITED INVENTORY




The idea is so far very strict. Vito can pick and hide only ONE handgun-type weapon, it is referred as "sidearm". Another handgun can be picked and used, but it has to be in hands and is discarded if player tries to holster it. If Vito has a "sidearm" in hands and tries to pick up another handgun, the newly picked handgun replaces the previous as a "sidedarm".


 




Hiding a rifle-type weapon is not possible, Vito can only carry one rifle-type and only in hands.




Summary of Vito's inventory with this mod: one handgun which can be holstered + one other weapon in hands (be it small gun or rifle).




Future hypotetical iterations may include various limits based on 3 Vito's outfit types (outfits without jacket, outfits with jacket, long coats)


 


 




HIT REACTIONS




Vito performs one universal hit reaction when hit by a gunfire or explosion. Multiple reactions are maybe possible, but so far I am glad it works at least somehow " data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">.




Hit reaction forces Vito to stop aiming, slows him down for a moment, disturbs weapon reloading process (gun is not reloaded and player has to again initiate reload) and forces Vito out of cover.


 




When Vito's health drops below certain threshold, each additional damage makes Vito drop currently held weapon and enter "low health critical mode".




In low health critical mode, Vito uses injury animset (which slows his movement), cannot operate guns, cannot climb obstacles and generally is very, very vulnerable. Low health critical mode fades away over time and Vito returns to normal mode (all possibilities permitted).


 




Purpose of a "low health critical mode" is to add realistic touch and to discourage players from rushing enemies head on. With "low health critical mode" and hit reactions mod active, at least slow health regeneration is REQUIRED, otherwise the game is annoying and unplayable (personally tested).


 


 


 




Well, let the discussion begin. What are your ideas, what would you like to see in regards to these two gamedesign changes?

Oh my god that is great man!Finally something i like a lot.I didnt like the idea of having 8 weapons under the jacket and the thing that you cant throw them away.Very nice man.You must finish this mod it would be so much more fun to play mafia 2 again with this system.




Also maybe you could add new feature,when you are under cover and than you show up to fire,Vito does it really fast.It would be great if he does that slower that would be more realistic too.Or removing slow motion from the fist combat.




They should have more people like you in 2k(maybe there are none  <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue.png" alt="" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/tongue@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">  ).


 




Also you might edit the copsystem.Because when you  cant holster a rifle you basically cant get on the streets with it.

Hang on ive got an idea.Remember in missions you cant sprint in the locations.So there must be a script which disables it.So how about this: you can holster 1 rifle just like in the old Mafia but when you holster it,it disables you to sprint.




Gangsters holstered tommygun under the coat all the time.Dont know if its possible but it would be more realistic to holster the weapon only when you have a long coat or such thing.There may be a condition for that.The coat on Vito is a model after all.

Alright Samo, your ideas sound valid. Let's adjust the inventory system design:


 




There are four major types of outfit recognized in regards to the inventory system:




[ul]

• underwear - duh
  
  
  
  
  
• nojacket  - shirt & trousers, racing suit, maybe more?
  
  
  
  
  
• jacket    - all outfits which have waist-long jacket/
  
  
  
  
  
• coat      - all outfits with long coats.
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  Also, for purpose of this system, weapons are divided into following three classes:
  
  
  
  
  [ul]
  
  
  
  
  
• long    - submachineguns, rifles, baseball bat, long environmental melee objects
  
  
  
  
  
• short   - handguns
  
  
  
  
  
• special - molotovs, grenades, baton, knife and and short environmental melee objects
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  Next, each type of clothing will have separate set of rules regarding inventory capacity for weapon classes:
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  Underwear
  
  
  
  
  No inventory. Vito can only carry one item (arbitrary weapon class) and only in hands.
  
  
  
  
  Grenades/Molotovs are limited to strictly only one. If player tries to pick up more, these extra grenades/molotovs are discarded and fall back on the ground.
  
  
  
  
  Weapons are limited to strictly one magazine capacity. Excessive ammo is discarded back to the ground.
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  nojacket
  
  
  
  
  Vito can store in his inventory either one short weapon or one special weapon class. Not both at the same time.
  
  
  
  
  Ammo limiting (only one magazine available) does not affect the short gun marked as the inventory one.
  
  
  
  
  Ammo limiting affects grenades/molotovs (limited to TWO pieces) even if they are stored as the inventory item.
  
  
  
  
  Ammo limiting does affect guns/items which are only held in hands (not marked as being in the inventory). Limited to one magazine for non-inventory guns or one picece of non-inventory molotov/grenade.
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  jacket
  
  
  
  
  Vito can store in his inventory both one short weapon and one special weapon classes. Both at the same time.
  
  
  
  
  Ammo limiting affects only non-inventory held items, which are limited to one magazine for guns/one piece for grenades/molotovs.
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  coat
  
  
  
  
  Vito can store in his inventory both one short weapon and one special weapon classes. Both at the same time.
  
  
  
  
  Vito can also store one long weapon in the inventory. However, storing the long weapon and picking up another long weapon to be held in hands (so Vito carries two long weapons) disables abilities to sprint and to climb over obstacles.
  
  
  
  
  No ammo limiting even for held-only weapons.
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  So, what do you think about this concept?

I think its way better now than it used to be and the cloth classes are well thought too.If you can arrange this its going to be really great.Now player must think what clothes should he take before action which sounds great.


 




Mafia 2 really has a lot of things which needs to be set to look realistic.


 




Maybe the mod could also affect the cops.Like when you kill them from behind stealthy you wont get wanted.Because when you for example want to rubb a shop and the cop is jaunting around the streets its necesarry to kill him.




It would be realistic when there are not witnesses but i dont think that this can be arranged.




But ive got one idea on mind how to make something simmillar to this -




My idea is this




Civils wont get you wanted so quick in real life after all and in the 50s duple not.Maybe there could be some sort of a hidden timer which will be setted on when you kill a shop keeper or a cop.Usually there are always people on the streets so it is realistic.For example you have 10 minutes to get dressed different before the cops will get you wanted.When you change clothes the timer will be setted off.


 




One question now.Is this mod going to include and affect the system of aforementioned Melee weapons too?

Hi Andrashi




like me you do not have much free time,




but you did a very good work, I love this realistic side.

Samo, I see you would like to see several changes in a police system. Me too and it will be another project, but please so far let's stay on topic of this thread.


 




At least for now it looks like we reached a consensus regarding outfits and how they should affect player's inventory. As designed now, it looks like coated outfits are the best to wear all the time. But I don't want a player to steal a coated outfit at the beginning of the game and be OK with it till the end. That would make the whole idea of tactic a bit pointless.


 




So, let's mix realism and game logic. What if selected outfit affects player based on the weather? Of course this should work only outside and be disabled when player enters some interier. General idea is:


 




Summer Day




[ul]

• underwear - no penalty





• nojacket - no penalty





• jacket - permanent light dizziness (light drunk effect)





• coat - permanent heavy dizziness and health regen disabled




[/ul]


 

Summer Day Rain




[ul]

• underwear - health regen disabled





• nojacket - health regen slowed down





• jacket - no penalty





• coat - no penalty




[/ul]


 

Summer Night




[ul]

• underwear - no penalty





• nojacket - no penalty





• jacket - no penalty





• coat - health regen slowed down




[/ul]


 

Winter Day




[ul]

• underwear - health slowly dropping till death (by freezing)





• nojacket - health regen disabled





• jacket - no penalty





• coat - no penalty




[/ul]


 

Winter Day Snow




[ul]

• underwear - health slowly dropping till death (by freezing)





• nojacket - health regen disabled





• jacket - health regen slowed down





• coat - no penalty




[/ul]


 

Winter Night




[ul]

• underwear - health slowly dropping till death (by freezing)





• nojacket - health slowly dropping till death (by freezing)





• jacket - health regen disabled





• coat - no penalty




[/ul]


 




I think something like this would do the job. If player goes outside and does not choose outfit in regards to actual weather, consequences are made. Simple way to make the player choose other outfits than long coat in summer. In winter long coat is a logic choice, no problems with that. It even goes well in terms of the game progress - at the beginning of the game player is even encouraged to wear the most advantageous outfit. And as the game shifts to second phase, player is made to choose other outfits.


 


 




Final words, the plan is to create and test several game designs and then pack all of them together into one realism modification, called Mafia II: ReCzech mod. So yes, Crash Concept Melee Weapons system is taken into account. It will have its own thread as well, since there are several changes to be made in close combat system in order to make it look less static. But that has to wait. Now we are discussing inventory system, gunfire hit reactions and weapon properties.

Right


 




About the weather.this is good idea man.So player cant just take a coat everytime because he gets another disabling.


 




On the other hand in summer player cant take a rifle weapon type with him without another restriction.




How about we take a little detail to the rifle weapon types if you know what i mean.Grease gun must be treated different than a rifle or a shotgun for example.Grease gun is a small weapon.How about we will allow just this weapon to holster in the jacket.And edit the recoil and the number of clips.




You know it is realistic cuz its a small weapon,smaller than a tommygun for example.You should make this mod realistic but you shouldnt limit player as much as possible in this if you get my point.


 




Btw on the video that you have posted before i saw that you can edit and change the walk animation cycle when player gets hit which is good."coat - permanent heavy dizziness and health regen disabled","jacket - permanent light dizziness (light drunk effect)"-It may be more realistic and less annoying if you could manage to slower or change the walk animation cycle and edit Vitos jumping and sprinting skills.Maybe when its summer and wearing a jacket would just limit these and coat would cause a light drunk effect too.That would be a lot more realistic.


 




What do you think about it?

Alrighty, here we go with another interation. I looked into weapon lengths (wikipedia). Let's see:


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">



 


 


 




Beretta 38A




Ãâà 94.6 cm




37.2 in


 


 




Thompson 1928




Ãâà 85.0 cm




33.5 in


 


 




Thompson M1A1




Ãâà 81.0 cm




32.0 in


 


 




MP40 (stock folded)




Ãâà 63.0 cm




24.8 in


 


 




GreaseGun (stock folded)




Ãâà 57.9 cm




22.8 in


 


 




Remington 870




128.0 cm




50.5 in


 


 




M1 Garand




110.0 cm




43.5 in


 


 




Mauser 98k




111.0 cm




43.7 in


 


 


 




</div>

 




You are right, MP40 and Grease gun are noticably smaller than the rest of two-handed guns and could be easily hidden in a jacket-type clothing. So let's add an exception just for these two long guns, that in case of jacket type clothing they can be stored as a "pseudo short weapon" in the inventory, occupying short weapon slot and inducing movement limiting as you are suggesting.


 




I am yet to see if I can affect speed of movement (speed of walking, speed of running). If I can, then I would change restricting conditions on clothes and use the speed of movement as a limiters.


 




Also I remembered that there are much more weather presets than just those used in a freeride. So it would be wise do distinguish just a few remarkable weathers and place all ingame weathers into these categories.


 




Overall check No#1 of the limited inventory design


 




[ul]

• underwear
  
  
  
  
  [ul]
  
  
  
  
  
• Inventory - no slots available





• Hands - amount of carried ammunition for currently held weapon limited to one clip max.





• General weather restrictions




[ul]





• Winter day
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter day snow
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night snow
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day rain
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night rain
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• nojacket
  
  
  
  
  [ul]
  
  
  
  
  
• Inventory - One slot total. One slot for either a one small weapon or a one special weapon





• Hands - amount of carried ammunition for currently held NON-INVENTORY weapon limited to one clip max.





• General weather restrictions




[ul]





• Winter day
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter day snow
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night snow
   - health slowly drops till death
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day rain
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night rain
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• jacket
  
  
  
  
  [ul]
  
  
  
  
  
• Inventory - Two slots total. One slot for a one small weapon or one MP40/GreaseGun. Another one slot for a one special weapon.

If player has MP40/GreaseGun holstered in the inventory and has a non-long weapon in hands, then sprinting and obstacle climbing are disabled.

If player has MP40/GreaseGun holstered in the inventory and has a long weapon in hands, then sprinting, running and obstacle climbing are disabled (player forced to walk movment).

• Hands - amount of carried ammunition for currently held NON-INVENTORY weapon limited to one clip max.





• General weather restrictions




[ul]





• Winter day
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter day snow
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night snow
   - health regeneration disabled
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day rain
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night rain
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• coat
  
  
  
  
  [ul]
  
  
  
  
  
• Inventory - Three slots total. One slot for a one small weapon. Another one slot for a one special weapon. Another one slot for a one long weapon.

If player has a long weapon holstered in the inventory and has another long weapon in hands, then sprinting and obstacle climbing are disabled.

• Hands - no extra limits on amount of carried ammunition for currently held NON-INVENTORY weapon.





• General weather restrictions




[ul]





• Winter day
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter day snow
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Winter night snow
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day
   - health regeneration disabled and "drunk effect" present
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer day rain
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night
   - health regeneration slowed to one quarter
  
  
  
  
  
• Summer night rain
   - no restrictions
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  [/ul]
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  Remember and bear in mind that weather restrictions are only SEMI-REALISTIC. Goal of weather restrictions is to make player wear all outfits through the game, not only coat one.

Andrashi


 




I can not understand




for example




Freeride in a large selection of weather (25 species from eXistenZ34)




in the game even more different weather




how it will affect the player's health?




and if I play for any character (not Vito) in a game or Freeride




how it will affect the change of arms?

WOW!  :woohoo:


 




I always say that too when you do your simulation modifications they're done so F$@#in' well!


 




Thus far, it's already better than the ROTH mod, only 2 parts missing ( wich I think are very hard to implement ) wich is...


 




-Bullets discarded upon reloading a non-empty a magazine.


 




-Magazines and shell casings to remain on the floor, if you had that, then WOWZZEERRSS!   <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/smile.png" alt="" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">

QuoteRemember and bear in mind that weather restrictions are only SEMI-REALISTIC. Goal of weather restrictions is to make player wear all outfits through the game, not only coat one.

 




Yeh i get your point.Just that light drunk effect on jacket seemed exaggerated to me.On the other side player can take a jacket at night and during the day he could take the nojacket ones but the weather in Mafia is not natural and doesnt change during the day so i dont know if it is right to do that on the jacket.Only Existenz freeride can handle the weather changes while playing.


 




That Overall check No#1 seems good.


 




About the animations.Ive got one idea on mind how to do that.Somewhere on the net ive watched the 3ds Max animation settings and it includes the setting of the loops and so on.And if you could import it from Mafia to Max it theoretically could be done.You think that the subscript of the mafia files could be edited so Max can read it?

zahar999




These realism ideas are not intended for a freeride mod. I don't want to create another freeride mod. Existenz is the one who is doing freeride mod. These ideas will be used to make the gameplay in the story more realistic.


 




Mike Bruski & CrAzY3AGL3




So far RotH mod is better because RotH mod is out while this current "project" is so far nothing more than just a bunch of concepts.


 




Magazines and shell casings to remain on the floor is maybe doable. Well not exatly "remain forever", but for example disappear in five/ten minutes. However it will require digging in particle files, which is a neighbour of "Mafia II file city" I am not regularly visiting because local residents are quite confusing and not easy to understand. Such a change will most certainly cause an extra performance stress, but we are talking about PC version of Mafia II, not Xbox360/PS3.


 




Samo




Yes, drunk efect on jacket-type clothing was too much. Regarding weathers - there are lots of weather presets used throughout the story. In the design summary I used six general weathers just to give a glimpse of weather restrictions system. The idea is to customize weather vs clothing restrictions specifically for each mission. That way restrictions can reflect actual mission weather quite closely.


 




Regarding animation importing, I have not deciphered animation data format and I have no intentions to do it because of its complexity. My apologies, but that is something beyond me <img src="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy.png" alt="" data-emoticon="" srcset="/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/happy@2x.png 2x" width="20" height="20">.


 




QUIZ ENDED, winner is Zahar999




Here is a small video showing ammunition loss when reloading clip/drum fed weapons. Just as it should be in a "realistic" game.


 




<div class="ipsSpoiler_header">

The_video


</div>

 

I don't get it - are you sure it is proper video ?

Quotezahar999

These realism ideas are not intended for a freeride mod. I don't want to create another freeride mod. Existenz is the one who is doing freeride mod. These ideas will be used to make the gameplay in the story more realistic.

it I understand



<hr class="bbcode_rule" />





I was interested in




15 chapters in the game ~ 30-50 types of weather

QuoteRegarding weathers - there are lots of weather presets used throughout the story.

In the design summary I used six general weathers just to give a glimpse of weather restrictions system.




The idea is to customize weather vs clothing restrictions specifically for each mission.




That way restrictions can reflect actual mission weather quite closely.

in the game a lot of different weather




how it will affect the player's health?




and if I play for any character (not Vito) in a game




how it will affect the change of arms?


 




on video




dumped ammunition in the clip will not be returned to the player